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Winter Solstice

 
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RagnarRocks
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:30 am    Post subject: Winter Solstice  Reply with quote

As it's the Winter Solstice today and the day we would traditionally celebrate as opposed to Christmas a made up day of little or no meaning. I wish you all well for the forthcoming lengthening of days !
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mrsbradey



Joined: 11 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why thank you kind sir, may the days lengthen in your favour.
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fred



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: Winter Solstice Reply with quote

RagnarRocks wrote:
As it's the Winter Solstice today and the day we would traditionally celebrate as opposed to Christmas a made up day of little or no meaning. I wish you all well for the forthcoming lengthening of days !


Midwinter celebrations have never been on the solstice. People in antiquity didn't know when it was the solstice they only knew when the solstice had passed, when the shadows cast by the sun started getting noticeably shorter again.

If the weather was overcast it could be well into January before they knew spring was on the way.
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mrsbradey



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Winter Solstice Reply with quote

fred wrote:
RagnarRocks wrote:
As it's the Winter Solstice today and the day we would traditionally celebrate as opposed to Christmas a made up day of little or no meaning. I wish you all well for the forthcoming lengthening of days !


Midwinter celebrations have never been on the solstice. People in antiquity didn't know when it was the solstice they only knew when the solstice had passed, when the shadows cast by the sun started getting noticeably shorter again.

If the weather was overcast it could be well into January before they knew spring was on the way.



Its still true that the Christians stole most of the Pagan rites and festivals in order to get the peasants into church, so the church could extract their hard earned goods and monies from them!!
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Jax
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roll on spring time and it'll soon be summer  Very Happy
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cait
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jax wrote:
Roll on spring time and it'll soon be summer  Very Happy

yeah, but after that it's autumn.  Sad

and then winter and the winter solstice again, and we can look forward to spring. Smile

and then..
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cait
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Winter Solstice Reply with quote

fred wrote:

Midwinter celebrations have never been on the solstice. People in antiquity didn't know when it was the solstice they only knew when the solstice had passed, when the shadows cast by the sun started getting noticeably shorter again.

If the weather was overcast it could be well into January before they knew spring was on the way.

or in caithness, february!
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fred



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Winter Solstice Reply with quote

mrsbradey wrote:

Its still true that the Christians stole most of the Pagan rites and festivals in order to get the peasants into church, so the church could extract their hard earned goods and monies from them!!


The pagan rite would be New Year which we still celebrate on the 1st, that would be the time when there was a noticeable difference in the length of the day. Some in these parts still celebrate the Old New Year on the 12th, the New Year by the sun was on the 12th in 1752 when they changed to the Gregorian calender and missed 11 days to even things up again.

In olden times days didn't start at midnight, nobody knew when midnight was because the sun dials didn't work at night, they started at sunset on the day before which is why our festivals always start the day before, Christmas Eve, New Year Eve etc..
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RagnarRocks
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not wanting to directly disagree with Fred
If we take into consideration the alignment of place such as stonehenge, Newgrange all of which pre date Christianity by a few thousand years and have direct alignments to the winter solstice it would seem quite apparent that our ancient for bearers had a very precise knowledge of when the winter soltice was and based the festivities or worship around this event.
As the alignment isn't constrained to just one or two sites but by many ancient sites around the northern hemisphere I think it's fair to surmise that the winter soltice played a major role in their practises.
As for New Years considering we are currently using the Gregorian calendar which gives us an arbitrary beginning of the year based around the particular calendars format I think it fair to say that practises would not be based around the new year. Unless of course we are discussing relatively modern times ie the last 2000 yrs
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ducati



Joined: 11 Aug 2014
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Location: Caithness

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Common misconception there Rags, you are forgetting that our ancient ancestors were very heavily influenced by Alien stonemasons. Er..a bit like Wick Council offices  Laughing
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RagnarRocks
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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fred



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RagnarRocks wrote:
Not wanting to directly disagree with Fred
If we take into consideration the alignment of place such as stonehenge, Newgrange all of which pre date Christianity by a few thousand years and have direct alignments to the winter solstice it would seem quite apparent that our ancient for bearers had a very precise knowledge of when the winter soltice was and based the festivities or worship around this event.


Actually it isn't, it isn't too precise at all, it's debatable if it was ever built as a solar calendar at all. The sun doesn't actually rise over the Heel Stone on Summer Solstice either, it's somewhere close and it would have been less close 3,000 years ago, the earth's axis is changing.

The sun rises and sets in very much the same place for a week or two before and after the solstices. The length of day alters by only a minute or so then the change increases as you move towards the equinoxes.

Someone with a piece of stick stuck in the ground watching for when the shadow started getting shorter would have been more precise than the Druids at Stonehenge.
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RagnarRocks
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So when did the Druids start to have anything to do with stonehenge you're a couple of thousand years out on the construction of stonehenge and Druidic activity.
It takes a special kind of burying your head in the sand to deny the winter soltice as a special time for Northern European pre Christian religions. But I guess considering that most Christian celebrations are based around the religions that predate it I'm not surprised some people feel uncomfortable.

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