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RagnarRocks

Isis Threat to western life

Saw Mi6 mention this on another thread and thought it worthy of a thread or it's own.

Whilst IS and it's desire to recreate a caliphate all the way up to southern Spain may seem a world away from here, do the present a direct threat to the wests ways of life. Today I see they are making threats to the USA and we should not forget that according to news sources there are some 500 volunteers from the UK fighting with them. To put that in perspective over a regiment in size all from these fair isles.
Some sources say that the size of Isis is only in the region of 7000 strong if that is the case it shows the damage a relatively small group of well armed men can do.
ducati

Armed  with not too modern weapons captured from Iraqi forces. They have a finite supply and as the yanks blow em up at every opportunity they won't last too long. Probably why they are cross with USA. Much more of a threat to us when they come home in my opinion. Our government hopefully has in place a stratergy for making sure they don't.
MI16

isis have released a video of them beheading a us journalist tonight.
apparently it is a British fighter that did it also.
they have another us journalist that they say will be next
RagnarRocks

It really shows the mentality of these people. Journalists, medics no one is safe from them. The absolute barbarity of their actions speaks volumes about the type of people they are. Just psychopaths with a cause to reek medieval  horrors upon the world.
mrsbradey

I have to agree with Ragnar and ducati here, my biggest concern is what these barbarians will do on the streets of Birmingham, Leeds, Glasgow, London etc. How do you think the powers that be should deal with them on their return?
ducati

If they know who they are, arrest and internment on return subject to investigation of their movements and actions. followed by trial and incarceration for a million years.
Jax

I dont think they should have the freedom to our country when they return. They should be detained & questioned as a terrorist risk   Mad
mrsbradey

ducati wrote:
If they know who they are, arrest and internment on return subject to investigation of their movements and actions. followed by trial and incarceration for a million years.
under what charge?
ducati

You don't need one for internment.
RagnarRocks

Dependent on who they are , some have their passports removed from them so they can't re-enter the country. Some still have other nationalities which could be used I'm not 100% sure but I think Indians can still get a passport up to 2nd generation  immigrant.
Most or the organisations they belong to are illegal but that in itself wouldn't give you a reason to detain them for a long period.

New times with new laws required. What you have to accept is that if they all returned to this country without a change of opinion then we would have a huge problem. If humans can be smuggled into the country, weapons wouldn't be a problem.
ducati

I would intern their intire family, all known associates and seriously investigate their mosque. Unless and until authorities were convinced they did not represent a threat, they should be kept out of our society. It is well time the coffee was smelt on this 'cos it isn't going away. We are in a fight for survival, like it or not.
mrsbradey

ducati wrote:
I would intern their intire family, all known associates and seriously investigate their mosque. Unless and until authorities were convinced they did not represent a threat, they should be kept out of our society. It is well time the coffee was smelt on this 'cos it isn't going away. We are in a fight for survival, like it or not.


Many of the families are aware of what some of their members are getting up to, if they don't give up their errant members then they are guilty by association.

I hope when they return they merge back into British society, but I think they will have been far too radicalised, and seen too much excitement, to settle down, and the fried potato burden upon their shoulders will be bigger and heavier! Sad
ducati

I suspect they will be less of a problem now as the US will try very hard to wipe them from the face of the earth. Will be quite successful to as it is very hard to move in a vehicle or even on foot when the sky is black with drones packing smart bombs and Hellfire missiles.
ducati

I was quite disappointed to see on the news, that the cameras were pointed at an IS position, complete with black flags and everything, that quite patently wasn't being bombed. The Yanks really need to up their game!
secrets

I was discussing this with a good friend of mine who I have known since childhood.  He has been employed at top diplomatic levels over the years and he suggested that they will not let these radical fundamentalists come back. Not a lot he could say outright but i got the message - they are likely to come to a sticky end... so to speak and that would be a HUGE loss of course.
mrsbradey

secrets wrote:
I was discussing this with a good friend of mine who I have known since childhood.  He has been employed at top diplomatic levels over the years and he suggested that they will not let these radical fundamentalists come back. Not a lot he could say outright but i got the message - they are likely to come to a sticky end... so to speak and that would be a HUGE loss of course.
well I certainly hope the are not permitted to renter the UK, I don't really care how, in view of there contribution to atrocities. Sticky or not some form of end is required! Welcome aboard BTW.
RagnarRocks

Well it's not the hardest job in the world to find them despite what they may think and if and when the govt decides it's time to take action then no doubt their end will be swift
johno

Well, something has to be done and damned soon, this country has been bending over backwards for years to appease the islamic faith . ..  
we can be fair to the moderates but we just have to come down hard on the extremists. no other way round this . they are barbarians.
mrsbradey

extremist in anything are a dangerous thing when they group, when its a religion it is at its worst !! no religion should be aloud to push governments to the point that they are scared to act against them when they commit atrocities against there people. Political correctness gone too far!
johno

exactly.  where terrorism is concerned, a bill should be passed to shove the human rights bill up their assholes. and it should happen asap.
RagnarRocks

Political Correctness is another of those amazing California ideas that in reality is a leftie way of suppressing freedom of speech. How often do you hear people of a more liberal/left wing bias utter you can't say that. What they really mean is I don't want you to say that.

With the IS problem and radicalisation of Muslim youth of course going off to fight a war will be more exciting that working in primark or some call centre, no different to youth joining the armed forces but without all the rules and regulations, so unless you can cure youthful risk taking and stupidity it's going to be very difficult to stop. Fortunately many of them die in the process of being Middle East radicals, the problem comes when they return home and haven't got the violence bug out of their systems and want to start trying to change this country. Contrary to popular opinion it doesn't require thousands of men to flatten a city a couple of hundred if armed well could bring absolute chaos to any major European city, that's when we will have to rethink political correctness.
Phill

RR is quite correct. It wouldn't take much to bring this country to pretty much a standstill.

We forget in the UK just how geographically small we are, and with quite poor physical lines of communication.
Also, the majority of the population are a bunch of wusses with no resilience. Just look what happens when it snows or rains!

The issue now is how they are dealt with abroad, and has the UK got any grip on it's borders and movement of people?

Home grown fanatics are a huge issue, if the security services haven't got a grip on where they are, where they've been and when they may come back... well, we could be in for a shock.

The only 'upside' at the moment is, they are seemingly intent on actions in the Middle East and want to use Social Media to try and scare us rather than bring their war here.

However, should that change, we will be dealing with people happy to die for their cause. Unlike other groups that were intent of escaping intact.
mrsbradey

Phill wrote:
RR is quite correct. It wouldn't take much to bring this country to pretty much a standstill.

We forget in the UK just how geographically small we are, and with quite poor physical lines of communication.
Also, the majority of the population are a bunch of wusses with no resilience. Just look what happens when it snows or rains!

The issue now is how they are dealt with abroad, and has the UK got any grip on it's borders and movement of people?

Home grown fanatics are a huge issue, if the security services haven't got a grip on where they are, where they've been and when they may come back... well, we could be in for a shock.

The only 'upside' at the moment is, they are seemingly intent on actions in the Middle East and want to use Social Media to try and scare us rather than bring their war here.

However, should that change, we will be dealing with people happy to die for their cause. Unlike other groups that were intent of escaping intact.
I couldn't agree more! It is very difficult to fight those who consider dying an honour and will be, quite literally, praised for being a martyr!

There ARE more in 'your' country than you think!!!
ducati

One thing is for sure our Muslim problem (I'm sure you aren't allowed to call it that) isn't going away anytime soon. The relationship between the different ethnic groups within the UK is changing and the future isn't looking cozy.
SleveranGeordie

2011 Census says:

White: 55million; 87% of population
Asian:  4.4million; 7% of population
Black:  2million; 3% of population
Mixed: 1.2million; 2% of population

Total people living in Scotland:  5million; 8% of population

So what's the problem ?
ducati

When you put it like that, you'd really think there wasn't one. Trouble is, we don't have even distribution. I can't talk though, as a white settler in Scotland I'm as popular as a turd in a jacouzzi!  Laughing
secrets

Ducati are you saying that you are less than popular in the sunny north coast? Some would have it that racism does not exist in our modern Scotland. That it would disappear with the Declaration of Independence in our new inclusive Scotland.
ducati

Well I wasn't very popular on e.org that's for sure. But I was really referring to all white settlers in all Scotland. Since the current rise of Nationalism that is.
secrets

I have been fortunate not to have faced racism in Scotland then if incidents are on the increase. Did you see the ubiquitous one mentioned a Women for Independence boring no doubt poorly attended event on one of the threads. Wonder if she will put in an appearance. Maybe she would like eggs for breakfast
RagnarRocks

The ubiquitous one is very forthright in her views on e org but considering how much public speaking she claims to do doesn't like to be named or actually identified no doubt if you went up and said hello you'd have a visit from the men in blue with the charge of stalking levelled at you.
secrets

Don't you know who she is RagnarRocks? I have known for some time as an acquaintance I have worked with her. I have to say he had a higher opinion of her than I have, but there is no accounting for taste.

Now I have met several other members of the org and I can say a good pint of beer and a fine dram is often improved by their company. Sadly no longer posters.
RagnarRocks

No can't say I've ever met her.
But this Mornings news about another beheading isn't good IS is obviously taking some damage from U.S intervention I'm wondering what is going to happen now as the threat increases from these jihadists
ducati

If every time they get in a vehicle results in a loud bang and a meeting with Allah, they will soon run out of personnel. (and the desire to get into vehicles).
RagnarRocks

A report on the news last night stated that there's a large group of jihadis negotiating to come back as they are disillusioned with how the war really is.

I suggest it's probably more down to the fact they aren't jollying about untouched in technicals now but being given some tough love from Momma USA and her nice wee aeroplanes with jihadi anal annihilator missiles on board
ducati

Yes those depleted Uranium enemas really suck! Shocked
ducati

It appears with the US upping the frequency and scope of strikes that the IS loonys have no defence and can be forced to give up territory at will. All over bar the scorched earth as long as the pressure is kept up and even increased. Won't be pretty though.
mrsbradey

ducati wrote:
It appears with the US upping the frequency and scope of strikes that the IS loonys have no defence and can be forced to give up territory at will. All over bar the scorched earth as long as the pressure is kept up and even increased. Won't be pretty though.
It doesn't need to be pretty, just effective!!!
RagnarRocks

Problem is because of the nature of IS all the do is withdraw into towns and cities and air power isn't really effective unless you're happy to accept high collateral damage. I suspect they will wait till they are on the move and do some bump and grind in the desert with them. Once the degrade their technical vehicles to a degree where it compromises their ability to be mobile life becomes easier.
ducati

Yes, they will be a lot less trouble and even easier to target wondering around the desert on Shanks's pony.
PinkFloyd

Sterilize every last one of the "extremist" bastards, drive them down to the nearest harbour, chuck them into the sea and let the fuckers swim to Mecca.... that's what I would do if I was the so called "government" of this country. Round the lot of the savages up, rip their balls off with a pair of pliers and kick their arses into the sea.
mrsbradey

PinkFloyd wrote:
Sterilize every last one of the "extremist" bastards, drive them down to the nearest harbour, chuck them into the sea and let the fuckers swim to Mecca.... that's what I would do if I was the so called "government" of this country. Round the lot of the savages up, rip their balls off with a pair of pliers and kick their arses into the sea.


A bit harsh I think, but I don't doubt it would be a very effective!!!
RagnarRocks

Errr so let me get this right do you suggest we dip them in jeyes fluid or autoclave them ?
PinkFloyd

mrsbradey wrote:
PinkFloyd wrote:
Sterilize every last one of the "extremist" bastards, drive them down to the nearest harbour, chuck them into the sea and let the fuckers swim to Mecca.... that's what I would do if I was the so called "government" of this country. Round the lot of the savages up, rip their balls off with a pair of pliers and kick their arses into the sea.


A bit harsh I think, but I don't doubt it would be a very effective!!!


A lot more civilised than beheading them...... they get to keep their heads but lose their balls..... I call that very fair.
susie

Cameron says 'an act of pure evil' an understatement for the dreadful, sickening death of David Haines at the hands of those.................
Words fail me, to call them any name at all is to give them human status, to call them animals is a misnomer ( there are no animals that do things for a so-called cause ), they are not anything. I don't understand why the powers that be are fiddling around the edges blasting a few of them, they will only make the remaining ones more determined, more resiliant and more pissed off.
RagnarRocks

But now the British Govt will be able to do something as this will be used as justification and a whole can of whoop ass will be unleashed on IS including those trying to come home. Expect a ratcheting up of terror laws and action against radicals in this country.


Just to show complete and utter distaste Alex Salmond dropping his hat in the ring to use this to add to his credibility.
orkneycadian

Aye, its a great time to be even contemplating leaving the security of having the rest of the UK to help with counter terrorism, reducing our defences and leaving NATO. Sad
cait

we wouldn't need british forces or nato if we were independent because everyone loves us scots.
MI16

I seen a thing on the news the other day when they were interviewing folk that have just qualified to vote i.e 16 years old
a girl says, I think its good that we are getting rid of nuclear weapons, I mean we are a peaceful nation anyway so wont need them.

FFS you daft bint, what about all the other not so peaceful nations that may want to hit the wee soft country with no defence and oodles of oil.
RagnarRocks

Ahhh but they don't count as long as you tell everyone you love them and wish them cuddles and happiness they leave you alone.
As we can see from the Ukraines current situation Russia is obviously not sending in troops because Putin says they aren't, the mere fact they speak Russian, live and reside in Russia get paid by the Russian army and wear Russian uniforms it's irrelevant, because when they are on holiday they can do as they wish.
It's that kind  fluffy headed wooly socialist thinking that will sink this country to its knees,
RagnarRocks

Seems the Yankees decided that Syrian targets are ok and they unleashed a whole can of whoop ass on them last night.

Bet some of those Isis boys have headaches this morning  Twisted Evil
ducati

The Kurds are about to lose their battle for the Syrian/Turkish border town of Kobani. It seems that while air strikes are welcomed (by the Kurds anyway) they are not that effective at detering the sustained attack on the town defended by 15,000 regular and volunteer Kurdish troops.

The numbers estimated of IS fighters must be wrong unless they are all in Kobani.

The Turks seem to have lined up all their tanks on the border in a master stroke of tactics.
susie

ducati wrote:
The Kurds are about to lose their battle for the Syrian/Turkish border town of Kobani. It seems that while air strikes are welcomed (by the Kurds anyway) they are not that effective at detering the sustained attack on the town defended by 15,000 regular and volunteer Kurdish troops.

The numbers estimated of IS fighters must be wrong unless they are all in Kobani.

The Turks seem to have lined up all their tanks on the border in a master stroke of tactics.

Do you think they're waiting for the last of the civilians to leave before they bomb IS to hell and back?
I don't understand those Turks. They hate the Kurdish folk yet they've(rightly) let them into Turkey, an  they won't take military action until various promises have been made, meanwhile their border is compromised. If you can put me right, I would very much appreciate it.
ducati

You've got me Susie, I don't understand the situation at all. It seems IS are presenting themselves like a conventional force, leading attacks with tanks and heavy artillary. Just the sort of scenario that NATO have been training for for 50 years, and yet they don't seem to be effective in stopping them.
susie

ducati wrote:
You've got me Susie, I don't understand the situation at all. It seems IS are presenting themselves like a conventional force, leading attacks with tanks and heavy artillary. Just the sort of scenario that NATO have been training for for 50 years, and yet they don't seem to be effective in stopping them.

Well I've learnt something I didn't know MrD, Ithought they were more haphazard than to lead with heavy artillery. No wonder the Kurds chaps can't do much, I gather they haven't got the necessary equipment to hold IS back. The sooner the evacuation of civilians is complete the sooner (hopefully) the air attacks can start.
Same subject, different act. What do you make of that Moazzam Begg who says he offerred to get poor Alan Henning out by talking to IS? Someone is telling lies or hiding the truth or saving face. How dare any of them play with peoples lives in that way?
RagnarRocks

There are a few realities to deal with here. Firstly Turkey is a Muslim country and have no great love of the Kurds. Secondly Turkey is a NATO country Syria is not.

To some extent it serves Turkey well to have IS persecute a war against the Kurds whilst Turkey sits back and does very little except let the UN and other aid organisations set up camps for the refugees. In one swoop they appear to be generous but at the same time achieving their own goals.

IS in Syria is not a NATO problem and lining up tanks along your border is merely a show of force, Turkey has been vocal that if IS cross the border it will retaliate so as long as the fighting remains within Syria it's the international communities problem and doesn't create a problem for what could be turkeys new next door neighbour.


An attack on any one Nato member is considered an attack on all of them so if IS cross the border it's a game changer and opens up the potential for a convention ground war, which IS would stand no hope of winning. No doubt bombing will continue Syria will eventually sort itself out and Turkey will sit back and be happy.
susie

Thank you for this info MrR, it has cleared one or two things up for me.I didn't know about the NATO side of things.
ducati

Moazzam Begg strikes me as a bit a Walter Mitty, I don't think he is being taken seriously.
susie

ducati wrote:
Moazzam Begg strikes me as a bit a Walter Mitty, I don't think he is being taken seriously.

You could be right but how can we tell? With no real go-between should we not give him the opportunity to prove himself. What's the worst that can happen? Or is Islamist State not talking to anyone except the young virgins they keep coaxing over to their side?

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